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Pete Griffiths's avatar

An excellent piece. I do however have a quibble with the way you express your conclusion.

You say

"Ideological debates matter because political ideas have power and can help change the world. But they do not do so because ideas that are “correct” or “right” from a purely abstract point of view win and convince people. Instead, political ideas become successful largely to the extent that they are able to articulate the interests of large coalitions with a conceptual framework based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible."

Ideas do indeed have power and clearly have changed the world. And I agree that this is not because they are necessarily "right" n some epistemically deeply grounded sense.

However

Where i am having a problem is when you go in to say that "political ideas become successful largely to the extent they are able to articulate the interests of large coalitions with a conceptual framework based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible."

I believe this is seriously overstating the case. What matters is that such ideas can MOBILIZE the large coalitions, whether such mobilization truly is or is not in the interests of the group in question) and for this purpose the conceptual framework need not only not be deeply epistemically grounded but it also need not be "based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible." A charismatic leader can MOBILIZE a coalition with a deeply flawed factually broken message.

To repeat myself - the issue is the ability to mobilize and historically many, indeed probably most, such ideologies have been deeply flawed. Emotional appeals to tribal loyalties need not be intellectually persuasive and built in a solid factual substructure.

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Dan Li, Ph.D.'s avatar

I was with you >50% of the time. However, this line caught my eye:

“Ideologies that are conceptually inconsistent or rely on non-credible factual claims tend to be weaker contenders in that game. ”

This assumes facts and conceptual consistency is independent from ideologies. But I don’t think you have provided good reasons for this assumption. In my field (philosophy of science), there is a concept called “value-laden observations,” meaning when scientists make observations and come up with terminologies, they are actually bounded by the perspectives that they have, the values that they hold. So I am not sure that resting the strengths of an ideology on factual claims or consistencies is a good argumentative strategy.

For example, traditional medicine (like Chinese herbs and acupuncture) is consistent conceptually within itself, but when we talk about “heat” or “the patient’s Yin and Yang are inbalanced,” it sounds crazy in modern medicine. But it is considered a “fact” in that tradition. The “weaker” ideology in this case is not about factual claims or consistency, it’s indeed about social dynamics or power structure. More people study it, use it, fund it, more power to it. So I still don’t see how the “cynicism” can be resolved.

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