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Pete Griffiths's avatar

An excellent piece. I do however have a quibble with the way you express your conclusion.

You say

"Ideological debates matter because political ideas have power and can help change the world. But they do not do so because ideas that are “correct” or “right” from a purely abstract point of view win and convince people. Instead, political ideas become successful largely to the extent that they are able to articulate the interests of large coalitions with a conceptual framework based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible."

Ideas do indeed have power and clearly have changed the world. And I agree that this is not because they are necessarily "right" n some epistemically deeply grounded sense.

However

Where i am having a problem is when you go in to say that "political ideas become successful largely to the extent they are able to articulate the interests of large coalitions with a conceptual framework based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible."

I believe this is seriously overstating the case. What matters is that such ideas can MOBILIZE the large coalitions, whether such mobilization truly is or is not in the interests of the group in question) and for this purpose the conceptual framework need not only not be deeply epistemically grounded but it also need not be "based on principles that are consistent and facts that are credible." A charismatic leader can MOBILIZE a coalition with a deeply flawed factually broken message.

To repeat myself - the issue is the ability to mobilize and historically many, indeed probably most, such ideologies have been deeply flawed. Emotional appeals to tribal loyalties need not be intellectually persuasive and built in a solid factual substructure.

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Pete Griffiths's avatar

On rereading I have a quibble

"Marx is the most influential champion of the cynical view of ideology. His materialism purports to explain the emergence of ideas as a reflection of material reality and its economic and social structures"

This is misleading.

1 his view wasnt' cynical'. It was an attempt to describe reality post facto you can characterize it as cynical but irrespective of his strengths and weaknesses that is misleading.

2 he did indeed point out that material reality and social structures had a huge impact in ideas. But not ALLideas and not all of the time.

His work was in part a strong reaction to the work of Hegel who saw the world as the idea of some sort of spirit/idea.

Marx's views were far from perfect. For example. His economic theory, built in the contemporary theory of value, was broken. They're is plenty he got wrong. But I'm not sure that simplifying his ideas to the point of them being presented in a misleading way helps us

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